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	<title>Comments on: Scaling Databases and Google&#8217;s App Engine</title>
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	<link>http://robubu.com/?p=35</link>
	<description>the weblog of Rob Yates</description>
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		<title>By: Rob Yates</title>
		<link>http://robubu.com/?p=35&#038;cpage=1#comment-43951</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Yates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robubu.com/?p=35#comment-43951</guid>
		<description>@bob there goes the claim that they are that different to the rest of the hosters http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/17/google-app-engine-goes-down-and-stays-down/

I also think that both google&#039;s and amazon&#039;s data models are more complicated than most people think, this summarizes the issues nicely http://www.ryanpark.org/2008/04/top-10-avoid-the-simpledb-hype.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@bob there goes the claim that they are that different to the rest of the hosters <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/17/google-app-engine-goes-down-and-stays-down/" rel="nofollow">http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/17/google-app-engine-goes-down-and-stays-down/</a></p>
<p>I also think that both google&#8217;s and amazon&#8217;s data models are more complicated than most people think, this summarizes the issues nicely <a href="http://www.ryanpark.org/2008/04/top-10-avoid-the-simpledb-hype.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ryanpark.org/2008/04/top-10-avoid-the-simpledb-hype.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: bob balaban</title>
		<link>http://robubu.com/?p=35&#038;cpage=1#comment-43395</link>
		<dc:creator>bob balaban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robubu.com/?p=35#comment-43395</guid>
		<description>Have to agree with @6, for a lot of people it&#039;s not that they&#039;re worried about scalability, they just don&#039;t want to pay big bucks to host/maintain their own infrastructure.

Rob, do you think Amazon.com&#039;s data storage service offers more to the data-literate developer than Google does? If so, is it worth experimenting on combinations?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have to agree with @6, for a lot of people it&#8217;s not that they&#8217;re worried about scalability, they just don&#8217;t want to pay big bucks to host/maintain their own infrastructure.</p>
<p>Rob, do you think Amazon.com&#8217;s data storage service offers more to the data-literate developer than Google does? If so, is it worth experimenting on combinations?</p>
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		<title>By: Gastromancer</title>
		<link>http://robubu.com/?p=35&#038;cpage=1#comment-36606</link>
		<dc:creator>Gastromancer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robubu.com/?p=35#comment-36606</guid>
		<description>After some reflection, I&#039;ve changed my mind.  To paraphrase a very smart guy I met once who works for a hosting company (of sorts):

    Competent sysadmin is a -very- scarce resource.

-That&#039;s- the real value proposition here, not the data apis.  And at some level, perhaps I buy it.  I&#039;m just not sure yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After some reflection, I&#8217;ve changed my mind.  To paraphrase a very smart guy I met once who works for a hosting company (of sorts):</p>
<p>    Competent sysadmin is a -very- scarce resource.</p>
<p>-That&#8217;s- the real value proposition here, not the data apis.  And at some level, perhaps I buy it.  I&#8217;m just not sure yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Gastromancer</title>
		<link>http://robubu.com/?p=35&#038;cpage=1#comment-36583</link>
		<dc:creator>Gastromancer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robubu.com/?p=35#comment-36583</guid>
		<description>Rob, perhaps what you&#039;re trying to say is:

  sure, I like the turnkey provisioning, the built-in authentication, provision of email, URL mapping, and load-balancing.  But I don&#039;t like the fact that the only data API I get is to this &quot;substandard&quot; BigTable thing.  I want my ACID, maaaan.  And why shouldn&#039;t I get it?  Why shouldn&#039;t I get normal relational SQL?

  The googlers might tell me that I don&#039;t want it.  But they&#039;re living a world where apps might scale up so far and so fast that giving real fully-serializable access to shared data is prohibitively expensive.  So they&#039;re purposely given us an API that is -less- than that.  Problem is, for most, -MOST- apps, they&#039;ll never get to the level where a panty-waist MySQL on a weenie machine isn&#039;t enough.  If I believe that my app is in that category, -why- would I want to write my app to this much-more-complicated concurrency-control regime?  Really, why would I want to do it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, perhaps what you&#8217;re trying to say is:</p>
<p>  sure, I like the turnkey provisioning, the built-in authentication, provision of email, URL mapping, and load-balancing.  But I don&#8217;t like the fact that the only data API I get is to this &#8220;substandard&#8221; BigTable thing.  I want my ACID, maaaan.  And why shouldn&#8217;t I get it?  Why shouldn&#8217;t I get normal relational SQL?</p>
<p>  The googlers might tell me that I don&#8217;t want it.  But they&#8217;re living a world where apps might scale up so far and so fast that giving real fully-serializable access to shared data is prohibitively expensive.  So they&#8217;re purposely given us an API that is -less- than that.  Problem is, for most, -MOST- apps, they&#8217;ll never get to the level where a panty-waist MySQL on a weenie machine isn&#8217;t enough.  If I believe that my app is in that category, -why- would I want to write my app to this much-more-complicated concurrency-control regime?  Really, why would I want to do it?</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Yates</title>
		<link>http://robubu.com/?p=35&#038;cpage=1#comment-36566</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Yates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robubu.com/?p=35#comment-36566</guid>
		<description>@Geoff and @Assaf: many thanks for pointing this out, will have a post discussing this.

@Patrick: I came to this conclusion as it appears to be harder to write a GAE than a PHP / mysql application, this is due to all the limitations on what you can do with the data layer.  If you don&#039;t need huge scalability I don&#039;t see why you would want to make life more complicated for yourself. Get a webhost and code a PHP/ Mysql application :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Geoff and @Assaf: many thanks for pointing this out, will have a post discussing this.</p>
<p>@Patrick: I came to this conclusion as it appears to be harder to write a GAE than a PHP / mysql application, this is due to all the limitations on what you can do with the data layer.  If you don&#8217;t need huge scalability I don&#8217;t see why you would want to make life more complicated for yourself. Get a webhost and code a PHP/ Mysql application :)</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Mueller</title>
		<link>http://robubu.com/?p=35&#038;cpage=1#comment-36563</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Mueller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robubu.com/?p=35#comment-36563</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s built on the premise that the app will be wildly successful and most web apps aren’t.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not clear to me how you came to this conclusion &#8211; that the premise is that apps built on GAE will be wildly successful.  Rather, I suspect there&#8217;s plenty of low-fruit to be picked here in terms of the &#8216;long-tail&#8217; &#8211; most apps will NOT be wildly successful, and GAE will be a good fit for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Assaf</title>
		<link>http://robubu.com/?p=35&#038;cpage=1#comment-36540</link>
		<dc:creator>Assaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robubu.com/?p=35#comment-36540</guid>
		<description>Your site is blocked by Firefox/Google:
http://blog.labnotes.org/2008/04/13/googlefirefox-blocking-dev-sites/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your site is blocked by Firefox/Google:<br />
<a href="http://blog.labnotes.org/2008/04/13/googlefirefox-blocking-dev-sites/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.labnotes.org/2008/04/13/googlefirefox-blocking-dev-sites/</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://robubu.com/?p=35&#038;cpage=1#comment-36531</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robubu.com/?p=35#comment-36531</guid>
		<description>FYI Google Blog Search says your site is evil. bye bye
http://www.google.com/interstitial?url=http://robubu.com/?p=35</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI Google Blog Search says your site is evil. bye bye<br />
<a href="http://www.google.com/interstitial?url=http://robubu.com/?p=35" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/interstitial?url=http://robubu.com/?p=35</a></p>
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